Curious Conversations: A Podcast for Kids by Kids
Emma and Xavier are 14 year old twins who wanted to create a podcast for kids, by kids. On Curious Conversations, Emma and Xavier are excited to have conversations with adults and kids from all walks of life to learn about their passions and what inspires them. Ever wondered what drives an artist's creativity or fuels an entrepreneur's ambition? Well, wonder no more! We'll be chatting with the best of the best, from entrepreneurs to educators, athletes to artists, and beyond. What qualifies them to host a podcast? Well, first, Emma and Xavier love to ask questions! They also have over a decade of experience being kids and having a point of view on many topics. Emma and Xavier hope you will join them on their journey because when you're curious, every conversation is an adventure!
Curious Conversations: A Podcast for Kids by Kids
Podcaster to Podcaster: A Curious Conversation with Kattie Laur
In this episode, we sit down with Kattie Laur, a podcaster, podcast producer, and a well-known voice in the Canadian podcasting space. Kattie is also the author of Pod the North, a must-read newsletter that explores the Canadian podcast ecosystem, featuring interviews, podcast discoveries, and the latest industry news.
Kattie shares insightful stories, valuable advice, and her passion for podcasting, along with some of the challenges she’s faced along the way. Whether you're a seasoned podcaster or just starting out, this episode is packed with great takeaways.
In This Episode, We Discuss:
🎙 Kattie’s journey into podcasting and what inspired Pod the North
📢 The state of Canadian podcasting and what makes it unique
💡 Advice for new and aspiring podcasters
🎧 Common challenges in podcasting and how to overcome them
Connect with Kattie Laur:
Podcasts mentioned in the episode:
What did you think of today's episode? We want to hear from you!
Thanks for tuning in to Curious Conversations! We hope you enjoyed listening as much as we enjoyed creating it for you. Don't forget to stay connected with us on our website and Instagram for more exciting content. Also, make sure to hit that follow/subscribe button and leave us a rating to help us grow and reach more people like you.
One of the things that I always encourage hosts to do is to also remember that, like they are a part of the conversation too right, like somebody falls in love with the podcast, normally because they love the hosts and what the hosts are bringing to the table. So if a guest says something that you're like I don't know if I necessarily agree with that then you should say that. Or if you have a follow-up question, you should say that. Or, yeah, just remember, you can pop in whenever you want. It's your show and there's no rules on podcasting.
Xavier:Hi, welcome to Curious Conversations, a podcast for kids, by kids. I'm one of your hosts, xavier.
Emma:And I'm your other host, emma, and we're so excited to bring you another season of interesting discussions with people from all walks of life, to learn about their passions and what inspires them.
Xavier:We are still as curious as ever and we hope you will join us on our journey. Hi everyone, today we are super excited to talk with Katie Lauer. She's a podcaster, producer and the creator of Pod the North, a really cool newsletter all about the Canadian podcast scene. Basically, she knows a lot about podcasting. This was such a fun conversation because it was the first time we got to chat with another podcaster about well podcasting. Katie shared some awesome advice, told us what she loves about making podcasts and even talked about some of the challenges that come with it. If you ever thought about starting a podcast or just want to know what goes on behind the mic, this episode is for you, so let's get into it.
Emma:Hi Katie. Thank you so much for joining us on the show.
Kattie:Thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited to be here. It's so funny joining a call with two people at the exact same time. What grade are you guys in? Grade nine, ooh, okay. Yeah, first year of high school hardcore yeah.
Emma:So, katie, you've been in the producing podcasting industry for a while. You're a podcast producer and the author of Pod North, a newsletter for Canadian podcasters. So, before we get into all that, do you remember the first podcast you listened to?
Kattie:Oh yeah, I remember it very vividly. It feels like it wasn't that long ago because podcasting hasn't been that popular for very long, but I remember I think I was on a treadmill or like on an elliptical at the time and I decided to just hit play on this podcast called Reply All and it was this guy looking into, like, who is behind all of those scammy phone calls that you get. So he actually tracked down this company, this huge company who is based in India, and he went to India, found all of these people who worked for this company and discovered the scammy people behind all of this stuff. It was nuts and that just opened up a whole world of storytelling and everything you could do with audio. It was crazy. So I remember this very well.
Emma:Wow, that's, that's insane. I wonder how he got that idea. I mean, obviously people would listen to that.
Kattie:Yeah, it was basically just a podcast where a guy was like how the heck does technology work and why are these things happening? And then decided, listen, I'm a journalist, I could probably figure this all out.
Emma:Then did oh yeah, best podcast start with curious people, so oh yeah, really interesting, definitely, uh.
Xavier:So we would like to know a little bit more about pod the north. Uh, why did you start it and why did you decide to focus on canadian podcasting?
Kattie:oh, I mean, I definitely have an answer for this that I've talked about a bunch, but I'm starting to question how much the two of you, a couple of grade nines, will care about it. But basically I will. I just worked in podcasting or I was desperate to work in podcasting for a long time. I went to I mean by grade 12, I was like I definitely want to work in radio. I went through all of university and was like, yeah, I, I definitely want to work in radio. I went through all of university and was like, yeah, I'm definitely going to work in radio, for sure, this is the game plan.
Kattie:I graduated and I did not get a job and I was like what the heck? So I applied for jobs over and over and over again after graduating, couldn't find any. Finally did find some, which was me making my own work. I decided to just find some clients who would pay me to make them podcasts. And then I was like listen, why is this so hard? Why am I a talented producer?
Kattie:I learned all this stuff from school, but nobody's giving me jobs, nobody's emailing me back. I don't even know what is going on here. So basically, by meeting people in Canadian podcasting, I realized that everybody sort of felt the same way. Everyone was like I don't know what's going on here and I feel like my talent isn't being sort of showcased or nobody even knows I exist. So that's what brought me to Pod the North, which was basically a mission to connect the Canadian podcasting ecosystem and making sure that, like people who are just making podcasts for fun, like you guys, or people who are doing it on like a professional level and getting paid by people, all feel like they know what's going on around here and can find each other as resources and hire each other and just make it easier to exist here.
Emma:Wow, that's, that's certainly a lot. I mean that just that's. You took a kind of a big hole in the kind of canadian podcasters and you kind of tied us all together, which I think a lot of us will be thankful for, because it's, it's kind of nice to know and like learn and rebound ideas off each other, and that newsletter is just it's going to start a whole community?
Xavier:Yeah, I have a feeling Helps people connect.
Kattie:That's the plan, and you're totally right too, emma, because I started the newsletter thinking like listen, I think only like a couple of my friends are going to read this. It's mostly just me ranting and complaining and then all of a sudden it just exploded and a whole bunch of people really resonated with it and it's been around for about two years and it's kind of kicked off the ground more than I expected it to. I got a bunch of speaking gigs from it over the last couple of years. I did a live event a couple of years ago to celebrate the one year anniversary of it. Got CBC podcasts involved. Yeah, it's kind of picked up off the ground more than I expected. So hopefully everything you just said is going to come to fruition one day.
Xavier:Hopefully.
Kattie:I will, for sure.
Emma:So it seems like you have a bit of everything when it comes to podcasts. You just said you kind of started off just kind of helping a few people out. So, through your whole experience working in the podcasting industry said you kind of started off like just kind of like helping a few people out. So, like through your whole experience working in the podcasting industry, what has been your, what do you love most about it and what's your favorite thing about it?
Kattie:Well, I think, if you can't tell already, I love talking. I love talking to people about podcasts. I love talking on podcasts and along with that I think I have a lot of just creativity that I like to express in some capacity. And podcasting was so fun because you could just do whatever you wanted. There's really no rules in podcasts.
Kattie:You might think if you want to work in radio, you have to work for a big company, but turns out you can make radio on demand for anybody to listen to and just do your own thing, and you don't have to find a job.
Kattie:On demand for anybody to listen to and just do your own thing and you don't have to find a job. It's still hard to get paid in podcasting, though, so that takes work. But yeah, what I love so much about it is just like I love just being a part of the creative process and also finding like really important stories and things that people are talking about that I think are valuable in the world and helping them grow audiences around them. So that's the work that I do now is around like building audiences and building communities. But yeah, I think I've always had like a bit of a justice streak in me and I've always sought out like good things for people and when I see that people have important things to say, then I want to make sure that people hear those things. I see that people have important things to say, then I want to make sure that people hear those things.
Emma:I mean totally. I think in the next coming years, podcasts are definitely going to be on the increase. They already are, oh yeah. Especially with radio. I think podcasts are almost surpassing it. It's really important for everyone to get something to say, because everyone can learn something from someone else Totally.
Kattie:Absolutely Totally.
Xavier:And that's amazing, like trying to connect different people.
Kattie:Thanks, it's hard, it's a lot of work. I'm definitely like tired all the time. I will say that, but I can't help it. When you feel like you can't help, but do something, it just happens.
Xavier:It always feels better when you can help Totally.
Kattie:Yeah.
Xavier:That's awesome, obviously, but even just hosting a podcast, we know that it's not always easy. So what's the most challenging thing about working in podcasting?
Kattie:That's such a big question, xavier. As specifically as a host or in, like making a podcast, what are you the most curious about In both? Okay, I think. Like in hosting a podcast, I think it's hard to stay in the moment and like listen to your guest while also thinking about how to like make an interesting conversation and drive a narrative through the conversation that you're having. So sometimes you have like a plan of questions that you're going to ask somebody, but then somebody kind of goes on another tangent that might be more interesting than the questions that you've planned, and making that judgment call in the moment is kind of like distracting at the same time. So, yeah, that's the toughest part about hosting a podcast, I think, is like staying in the moment but also deciding what's the most interesting and also sticking to the game plan, because if you work in this field and you have a producer or a whole team behind you, they've probably spent a lot of time doing research for you and writing interview questions for you, and so you don't want to completely abandon everything that they've prepared. You got to stay a team player too. So, yeah, those are the hardest parts of hosting.
Kattie:And then, in terms of producing, let's say.
Kattie:I mean there's so many different ways to approach this, but let's talk about it in terms of like deciding on what sort of topic to do for a podcast episode.
Kattie:I mean, when you start a podcast you might have millions of ideas or you might think you have a really good idea until you think about all the episodes you can do and you're like, wait, I think that's only good enough for one episode, like, I don't think we have much more than this. So figuring out what the mission of your podcast and if there's enough in there to make a show an interesting show, can be really challenging and it can be like a long conversation with teams that you have. I don't know, maybe you've had this conversation with your mom already, so I know she's a podcast producer and I'm sure she's got lots of great ideas for the show too, and you guys have different ideas. So sometimes, like having that collaborative team, you have to figure out all right, like how, when am I going to just step back and let somebody else's idea go forward? Or how hard am I going to push for my ideas and when do I know that something is a compelling pitch? Lots of things in that there.
Emma:Well, yeah, it's certainly a lot of work. I say, hosting and producing podcasts, yeah, you guys would know. Yeah Well for hosting specifically. I mean, I think the best part about what makes a good podcast is kind of, like you said, a balance of good questions and letting your guests go on a tangent about interesting things, because at the end of the day they're the expert.
Emma:But I think that's just kind of a unique dynamic between hosts and guests, just exactly like you pointed out, because you kind of keep them on track, but they're the expert and they're the one making the show interesting.
Kattie:Yeah, to keep them on track, but they're the expert and they're the one making the show interesting. Yeah, I'll add too one of the things that I always encourage hosts to do is to also remember that they're a part of the conversation too, right? Somebody falls in love with the podcast normally because they love the hosts and what the hosts are bringing to the table. So if a guest says something that you're like I don't know if I necessarily agree with that, then you should say that. And. Or if you have a follow up question, you should say that. Or yeah, just remember like you can pop in whenever you want. It's your show and there's no rules on podcasting.
Emma:Oh yeah, for sure. I mean the host is what makes, like, your audience and viewers consistent. And in terms of producing, I mean, obviously we don't know much, but our mom, she produces lots of podcasts and I think probably the most important thing is she means she's the dynamic, the same dynamic we have with her and all her other like podcasts. Is that just a lot of good collaboration? And you know, like all these like-minded people coming into a room, there's always good ideas coming out of it, which I think is almost the beauty of podcasts.
Kattie:Totally yeah. I think they call it like a very democratic space where it's open to a lot of different types of open opinions and yeah, I keep saying it, but like there's no rules in podcasting. It's so true, like it's still such an early medium that you can just kind of experiment and decide what you want on the fly and see if it works and resonates with your audience and then, if it doesn't, you can go back to the way that you were doing things, and it's not that big a deal.
Emma:Just earlier you were talking about tips for hosts specifically, but what is your advice around building an audience, a podcast audience and a community especially for independent podcasters? Because you're kind of making a connecting community within hosts with your newsletter, but how do you kind of build a podcasting audience, a community within your audience? How do you kind of build a podcasting audience, a community within your audience?
Kattie:Totally. I think, first and foremost, the question you have to ask yourself is, like, who is this podcast for? And you can think about it as, even as visually, as like okay, this somebody is clicking play on this podcast and they're thinking to themselves oh my God, finally I found a podcast that's exactly for me. Who is that person? What are they like? What are they up to every day? You don't even have to think about like how old they are. Sometimes that's important, and sometimes their gender might be important, but normally it's just a matter of like what their interests are and what their values are. And so think about, like who that person is for. And then, now that you know who that ideal person is, where do they exist in the world?
Kattie:Usually, there's a lot of other podcasts out there that might have a very similar audience to you, and so you can start to do like strategizing around, like maybe I should be a guest on that podcast too and try and tap into that show. There's a couple of different on that podcast, too, and try and tap into that show. There's a couple of different ways that you can collaborate with other podcasts, but then also you can go to events where those people are. Maybe sometimes that's a podcast conference. But maybe, let's say, you make a travel podcast. Maybe you go to a travel conference or you go to some event where a whole of like people who just graduated from high school are looking to go on their trip around like Southeast Asia or something, and you go meet all these people there. So it depends on where your audience, who you want your audience to be, and then some clever and creative thinking about where they exist in the world and how you can tap into that.
Xavier:So you mentioned using podcasts for social good by like bringing people together. What do you mean by that?
Kattie:Totally Well. So I don't know if you guys know, but the world is kind of chaotic right now.
Xavier:Absolutely.
Kattie:There's a lot of stuff going on and it's all very stressful stuff and the media has changed a lot since, like I was growing up, like their podcasts weren't. I mean, I'm 32 years old, I don't think I'm that old but like just 10 years ago there weren't very many podcasts out. Like radio was still a big thing, even Spotify wasn't really a thing. Like we were illegally downloading music off the internet and listening to it on our iPod. Like media is just changing so fast and so it's hard to know where to like trust information that's coming to you and now I think like we're getting an understanding that, like humans are humans, there's a variety of perspectives out there that, like some you may severely disagree with and some you may very much advocate for, and podcasting has sort of landed into this beautiful space of being able to showcase voices that are important and lend a variety of different perspectives. So I think, when it comes to podcasting for good, I would love to see because of how accessible this medium is for me. I'm 32 years old, so spending $150 on a microphone it's not that big of a deal for me and it isn't for a lot of 32-year-olds. Maybe it's different for teenagers, I would assume.
Kattie:But typically podcasting isn't very expensive of a thing to do. It's a pretty accessible thing to just make on your own. Some people call it like a DIY kind of space, like a do-it-yourself space, and it's very reminiscent to me of like the 80s, when people were making like underground punk music and stuff and just recording their stuff in their garages. All of that to say like you can make your own podcast pretty easily, and so I would hope that people are starting to use the medium of podcasting to spread good messaging. Unfortunately, we're not seeing that a lot in the podcasting space, so my advocacy around this is to get more people using their voices and more advocacy and more like money to those people who are using podcasts for good and for social justice. So that's where my head is at in terms of podcasting for good.
Emma:Oh yeah, for sure. I'd say it's so important to like podcast. It's a beautiful tool, as you said, and using it for social good it just makes sense as of right now.
Kattie:Right it 100%. Makes sense. Yeah, it just makes sense as of right now, right it 100%?
Emma:makes sense. Yeah, so you obviously like you kind of, especially with your newsletter. You know the ins and outs of the Canadian podcasting world. You know like all these top podcasts. So you were just talking about social good. Can you give us some examples of some podcasts you think are podcasting for social good?
Kattie:Ooh, great question, love this. Okay, one of my favorite podcasts right now is a show called Tech Won't Save Us. You guys probably know how ingrained technology is like a part of our lives. At this point, like we can't, like I can't, I get, so stuck in doom scrolling. At this point, it's awful, um. So this podcast called tech won't save us, it looks at the podcast industry, like the whole global industry, and basically unpacks the idea that, like tech billionaires can save us all, um, and that it takes like a lot more than just technology to like save the world. Um, and so this host, paris Marx.
Kattie:They have different guests on who are like technologists or experts about whatever field that they exist in, and just have a variety of conversations that are just rooted in technology that's trying to like change the world and kind of looks at it critically. So try and think of an example. One that I listened to was about how like easy and breezy traveling through airports has supposedly gotten and how you can just like book your tickets online and everything. You barely even talk to a person when you travel. At this point, like it's crazy. You don't have to do anything, you even get like a robot to you travel.
Kattie:At this point it's crazy. You don't have to do anything, you even get a robot to print your bag sticker and everything. But with that has come a lot of sketchy things that the travel and airport airlines have been doing to just basically make more money off of people, make traveling way less accessible and make traveling way more uncomfortable. So they not only have they they've been like kind of getting rid of people working at these places and losing jobs, but they've also been making like like the the space between chairs shorter so they can fit more seats in. They've been like up, like up, upselling people on how you have to pay for like a bag. Now, even just to carry on you have to pay for. So yeah, things like that that this podcast is digging into is like what the heck is technology doing to our world and what do we actually need to do to solve the problem that it's trying to solve?
Emma:Yeah, I think podcasts like that are just what the world needs. I mean kind of bringing awareness to the general public about the issues technology is bringing, or just anything. So you're talking about social good. And to the listeners listening, I mean we get some people are interested in starting a podcast, and I'm sure you get that all the time. So many times when we try to talk to them, they say they want to start one and they sometimes have an idea or sometimes even just a title they like. So, as I said, this must happen to you all the time. So, for anyone listening who's thinking about starting their own podcast, what advice would you give them?
Kattie:Ooh, I would say there's a couple pieces of advice, so this might be a very lengthy answer for you, but I would say the first place to start is, like listen to podcasts, I think, because there's a lot of people who think they're pretty funny out there and they're like ha ha ha, I should start a podcast and I'm like I don't even have you even listened to one before, do you? Do you know what kind of format you would want to do? Because by listening to other podcasts, you get a better idea of what you like and what you don't like about other podcasts. You get just inspired by other shows to decide on how you want to do things, and that was a huge part of how I started my own podcast last year. I was really inspired by this one show called Normal Gossip and I loved how they told stories on that. Basically, they get like anonymous gossip stories and then tell their guest this story. So you as the listener are just listening to this gossip story the entire time and it's so funny.
Kattie:Yeah, so I just find inspiration from podcasts that I listen to and things that I don't like, and then from there, like I mentioned already, think about like who your audience would be. And this is where, like people who typically are, like I'm going to start a podcast, this is where they just shut down immediately because they didn't actually think about their audience. They just thought about how fun it'll be to like talk into a microphone which is fun, I can confirm this but when nobody's listening, like, does it really matter, or are you just, is it kind of cringe that you're the only person like just talking into the ether and nobody's listening, right? So thinking about who your audience is is like the next big chunk there. And then from there, think about, like, can you make maybe five episodes out of this?
Kattie:Can you make 10 episodes out of this idea? If you can make only six, maybe you can make a miniseries and like, leave it at that and then make something new, like maybe you don't want it to continue on and on and on forever, maybe you only want it to be a limited run. So think about how long you want it to last as well, and that'll give you also a measurable goal of what to go forward with, because for my show that I launched last year called Canardian I so yeah, I would say listen to podcasts, figure out who your audience is see how long you want to do it for. And then, yeah, write a script and just record it.
Xavier:That's great advice and I can Thank you, and I can also confirm that it's so fun to talk to people and talking to a microphone.
Kattie:Yeah.
Xavier:But could you tell us more about your podcast?
Kattie:Sure. So I mentioned that I was super inspired by that gossip podcast. There's a story about, like a girl's trip who. These girls just graduated from college and they decided to go on a Southeast Asia trip together and the four of them decided they were each going to split and plan apart a leg of their trip and basically they went through the first three legs until the last girl just disappeared, just dipped, and they didn't find out what happened until they looked at their phones and tracked her location and she was at the airport headed home. Basically, she just got a free trip from her three friends and then just like disappeared off the face of the planet and just like, yeah, crazy stories like that. So yeah, humanity is messy. So this is what inspired my podcast.
Kattie:So I knew with Pod the North that I obviously love to support Canadian podcasters as much as I can, but I was like a podcast just talking about podcasts. There's so many of those out there already and the whole point of this is to like highlight their personalities. I want to make a podcast where people fall in love with other Canadian podcasters and then go listen to their show. So how do I do that? I'm going to make them talk about something that they can definitely talk about and share like really compelling stories about. To me, that is hometowns. So every episode of Canardian I have a Canadian podcaster come on and we gossip about their hometown.
Kattie:I do a ton of research ahead of time to see what the internet is saying about this hometown credible.
Kattie:It is not peer-reviewed, it's not got all these wonderful resources.
Kattie:The resources that I use for this show are Reddit, facebook groups, weird articles online, just hearsay, talking to people that I know from those hometowns. So, yeah, I put together like a kind of some information about the general vibe of this hometown and then I pick two main stories that I've uncovered about this hometown. So one of them recently was about like a lantern music festival that took over the Six Nations Reserve, telling everybody that it was going to be hosted in Toronto until all these people showed up on the reserve and got kicked out Things like that. So, yeah, I think it's also opened up a ton of interesting learnings that I've had about just the history of Canada, a lot of interesting context around just how cities were formed here and all of the people that were displaced and or killed because of that, and I think it's like opened up a lot of important conversations around power and reconciliation in like some really fun ways. So, yeah, that's what the show is doing. We're gossiping about Canadian hometowns with Canadian podcasters.
Xavier:And you get the information from what people think about those hometowns.
Kattie:Yeah, pretty much. So Facebook groups are a goldmine for this content. Boomers love to talk on Facebook groups and love to share their opinions. Oh, it's such good stuff to talk about on the show.
Xavier:So you were talking a little bit about Pod the North there. Could we talk about a little bit a different part of Pod the North and could you maybe give us a sneak peek on what's going to be the next edition of Pod the North?
Kattie:Sure, so I'm working on. So Pod the North, as a newsletter that I work on on the side, is chaotic. There's a lot of ideas that I have to write about and there's a lot of things on the go all the time. So basically every issue of Pod the North has sort of like a summary rundown of things that are going on in the ecosystem, just so everybody knows what's going on. But then there's also like a big piece that I write or I interview somebody about.
Kattie:So, coming up, I am in the midst of writing a piece about what indie podcasters should do if a politician asks to be on their podcast, like how to approach that interview, why they might want to be on that podcast, because for a lot of indie podcasters, if a giant politician asked to be a guest on your show, it could be like, oh my God, what this is so flattering, yes, please, until you take a step back and realize why they truly are wanting to be there, what kind of questions you can actually get away with asking them. So that's a piece that I'm working on right now, and then I'm also working on what else. There's some other exciting things I like to dissect, just like some of the big players and corporate entities here that you guys might not be as familiar with because you haven't been through the trenches yet. But just, you wait, if you keep podcasting you will. But yeah, just some fun pieces like that. That's the first one that I can think of off the top of my head.
Emma:So you said you like talking a lot, but you also seem very passionate about writing. What's your favorite and why?
Kattie:There's a variety of different kinds of pieces that I write. This is the thing. So sometimes I write like my what I think is just like DIY journalism is what I'll call it. So I'm super curious about a piece and I'll do interviews and then just kind of write an essay and put those interviews in between, sprinkled in between just to prove my point, or to prove a point.
Kattie:One of the ones that I did that I'm really proud of and that resonated with people a lot was are awards worth it for podcasters? There's a ton of podcasting awards out there and a lot of them are based on like a popularity contest basically, where basically the podcast with the biggest audience wins, they're going to get the most votes. Um, there aren't a lot out there with, like a judge and jurors who are judging the credibility of like how a story is told, how it's produced and all that stuff. So I did a dig, a deep dive into it and ended up finding out a little bit more about this one podcasting awards than I anticipated and found out that one of these awards companies called the Webby's is making, like I don't know almost a million dollars off of like one award ceremony and like really not doing much for the community. It's ultimately like people win when they have enough money to buy a trophy, basically. So I ended up unpacking it and finding out just how scammy some of these things can be. So that's one of my favorite pieces that I've unpacked and resonated with people the most.
Kattie:Then I've also been writing just some more creative stuff or just like sort of informed essays I guess I'll call it informed but air quotes for our listeners there. But I wrote a piece about how, like branded podcasts might end up getting more chaotic if they end up kind of following the way that TikTok is going. And I know you guys have probably seen ads and sponsored content on TikTok a bunch and Instagram reels and you can see how chaotic those vibes can be these TikTok accounts that are representative of an entire huge brand and just commenting like unhinged stuff in the comments, posting crazy things, and I was like what happens if they get a hold of the podcasting space? So I did like a whole write up about my thoughts about what could happen if we follow the chaotic vibes that seem to be doing so well for brands and what that could look like in podcasting. So, yeah, those are a couple of my favorite pieces, and somewhat recent ones too.
Xavier:So that's crazy that the awards go to just not like the best podcast, but just the podcast that most people listen to Pretty much. So like besides our podcast, do you have some other favorite independent podcasts that you love to listen to Pretty much so like besides our podcast, do you have some other favorite independent podcasts that you love to listen to?
Kattie:Yeah, okay, let me think about that for a second. So I mentioned Tech Won't Save Us. That's an independent podcast and it's gotten so successful that the host, paris Marks, and their producers they're like just they've gotten to build a career out of this stuff. Paris is also an author too, so they always go around the world and sort of talk about tech stuff. So that's a great independent podcast.
Kattie:There's another really good one about chess, and this is the thing. You're never going to make a giant podcast for everybody. You're usually going to be making a podcast for like a very niche, engaged audience. My friend and her partner make a podcast called Rooked the Cheater's Gambit and it's an investigative quote unquote investigative podcast into the world of chess. And looking at this big scandal that happened like a whole bunch of years ago, um, and looking at this big scandal that happened like a whole bunch of years ago, uh, it got so like for a while people didn't really care about this because it's like just people who are into chess like I'm always following the world of chess drama, um, until elon musk got involved in it and started tweeting about it and making comments and like stirred up all this controversy around it. Now everyone. Now everyone's involved. Yeah, now everybody needs to know about chess. So, uh, yeah, jess and her partner ryan end up doing some interviews to understand, like, the world of the chess culture, um, but it ends up being basically ryan just trying to convince jess to like chess.
Kattie:It's a really fun show. Every episode kind of unpacks a different theme that's existing in the world of chess. But it's also a really fun just like not examination. Just it shows their dynamic as a couple and as like a chess obsessed guy and a not so chess obsessed person, they just have a really fun dynamic. Uh, talking about this. So that's another really good indie podcast well, I, I love chess, it's, it's oh, there you go.
Kattie:It's a great show. It's a great show, xavier, you're gonna love it. I should watch it or listen to it.
Emma:Listen to it oh, this has been a fantastic interview, but we go. We have one more question. What's the secret to a great interview just like this one?
Kattie:Ooh, I mean, like you said, the confidence you got to have confidence. I think a great interview follows some sort of like maybe narrative arc in some capacity. I think a great interview starts with the best questions first, because, especially in podcasting, you want to keep people around right from the jump. And a great interview feels like personal and like I don't know personal to the guest and like the interviewer actually cares. Yeah, those are all my tips.
Emma:they're they're amazing tips there. You've obviously been around the block a few times a couple of times yeah, definitely have them well, thank you so much this has just been an amazing time, so eye-opening to the world of podcasts. I mean, you're obviously so passionate and like just so informed about the subject. I think like people could listen to you talk for hours about it. It's, it's amazing. Thank you so much this is the thing.
Kattie:I could talk about it for hours. I don't know if people want to listen to it, and just because I can talk about things for hours doesn't mean I'm the best person, so always listen to different perspectives.
Emma:Thank you so much.
Xavier:Thank you so much for your time. We had a lot of fun.
Kattie:Thank you guys.
Emma:Thank you for listening and I know all the shows. You probably listened to say this, but if you enjoyed this episode, please follow and rate the podcast.
Xavier:Also, we would love to connect with you and hear your thoughts about our episodes. You can find us on Instagram or visit our website. The links are in the show notes. Thanks for tuning in. Bye.
